tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post2707532709518373466..comments2024-03-27T15:36:44.737-07:00Comments on Haq's Musings: Is Pakistani Democracy Part of the Great Game?Riaz Haqhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00522781692886598586noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post-31499932052124380422013-10-20T23:55:13.125-07:002013-10-20T23:55:13.125-07:00In an open society, it's very easy for #US #CI...In an open society, it's very easy for #US #CIA covert operatives to penetrate and corrupt it. #democracy #Pakistan <br /><br />http://n.pr/GPMWrlRiaz Haqhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00522781692886598586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post-34896933429832227652008-09-19T13:17:00.000-07:002008-09-19T13:17:00.000-07:00ya i agree it should be a Pakistani war if it is t...ya i agree it should be a Pakistani war if it is to be effective. but I like the idea of diplomaticly unifying the countries tribal regions instead of out right war(they are Pakastani after all). the U.S.'s current decision to go into Pakistan is deplorable and only result in the exact opposite of what they try to gain. Unlike most I know our enemies now, will one day be our friends. The wrongs we have committed in this war is destructive in regards to long term diplomacy. I can't help but think of World War 2 German and French soldiers uniting and discussing the war they fought against each other 40 years earlier(which at the time of the war, was inconceivable). In my previous post I was speaking more to the author and not really the bloggers. your points(also the original article) are so amazing hence why i read this blog everyday. I'm not for Bhutto or Musharraf. They are only catylists for what Pakistan will be. They both had something to offer, but in their offering was also the elements that made them obstacles.<BR/> Thomas Pain who wrote Common Sense said this about government "Government at its best is nothing more than a necessary evil, at its worst an intolerable one". All politicians are corrupt to some degree. But from what I've read I have great optimissim in the Pakistani people. especially in regards to the transfer of power in Pakistan. The road ahead may be rocky, but they can clearly see the way. I don't think any amount of American meddeling is going to get the people of Pakistan to fall in line to our will or to be mearly wiped from existence. <BR/> I think Pakistan without jepordizing its national intrests need to consider the world in general. Jump in head first if you will. The world is much smaller these days and the more practice the government has in dealing with these new outside pressures the more effective they will be in implementing long-term Stratagies. They already are in a way, after reading the great article on alternative energy in Pakistan. Exploring outside models, using new information to strengthen and repair relationships with neighboring countries(India). All these complications are what intrests most westerners I've spoken with. not the harboring of terrorist like the news would have us believe. I see in these new emerging Muslim nations great possibilities in succeeding where the west has failed. But instead of being this manufactured American ideal it is being created using their own history and personal experience. Expanding on this great experiment called freedom. My fears in regards to the article is that in his tone i sense resentment, which is understandable because most of us reading this are separated from actually seeing the dead these decisions create. But self-destruction lies in that resentment, I sense that same resentment in the voices of my fellow Americans and know nothing good can come from it. Look at what colonolization has done to the world. In our fear and resentment we tainted the only thing that made us good. Its easy to place blame, its harder to find solutions. <BR/> I thank you for this blog and your own achievements. with people like you in possession of such education. I have little fear that the Pakistani's would sell themselves and their history so easily.This knowledge is what gives me great hope( a little nievely maybe)in these developing regions. It isn't how many times you fall, but the fact you rise again.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11270181090847169265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post-18780489089997346982008-09-18T21:43:00.000-07:002008-09-18T21:43:00.000-07:00Braden,What I published are the views of a Sri Lan...Braden,<BR/>What I published are the views of a Sri Lankan and I do not agree with the author's arguments or conclusions. But the author does find some resonance in Pakistan. And I can understand why. I do think US has a deep strategic interest in Pakistan for many reasons, its location in the proximity of two great powers being one. Pakistan's support is essential for US success in Afghanistan. US initially bet on Musharraf but later put its bet on Bhutto, forcing Musharraf to sign an amnesty and allow Bhutto to come back to Pakistan and participate in the election leading to the PPP win. Musharraf himself is not blameless. He contributed to his own down fall by messing with the judiciary that angered many people. Bhutto was and Zardari is very compromised and corrupt. Zardari can be easily manipulated to accept US demands that Musharraf would not. Hence US is betting on Zardari. Only time will tell if the US bet pays off without significantly destabilizing Pakistan to the detriment of the US, the entire South and West Asia region and the current "global war on terror". <BR/><BR/>I am a little skeptical that the enhanced US and world interest is good for Pakistan. It distorts Pakistani politics and hurts Pakistan's ability to deal with its own internal problems, including its fundamentalist jihadi outfits. <BR/><BR/>Ultimately, Pakistanis have to take charge of their own destiny to improve their situation.Riaz Haqhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00522781692886598586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post-40716102645920163872008-09-18T14:12:00.000-07:002008-09-18T14:12:00.000-07:00Braden I can see where the writer could perceive ...<B>Braden</B><BR/><BR/> I can see where the writer could perceive these as the facts but unfortunitly. I think your a little deluded. I am an American currently living in Florida. my interest in Pakistan exists because i believe your country will be the model to developing democracies world-wide. amazing history. I've also been reading this blog to get a better perspective outside of U.S. news<BR/> historically your right, America in the past has used all sorts of tactics to control various governments and their politically outcome. look at South American death squads(Bolivian rangers) of the 60's and the 70's, drug running like Air America during the Vietnam war, Iran-Contra scandal. most Americans remain willfully ignorant of these post colonialization type tactics. I am not Pakistani nor have i ever been to Pakistan, so on the ground i may be wrong. who knows what the U.S. is doing behind closed doors. but most of the countries they chose to deploy these tactics contained some kind of strategic advantage such as undermining socialist governments and using their failure as a way to undermine the ideal(Argintina). or areas rich with natural resources like oil(Iraq)or other commodities like diamonds and gold(Africa), medicines(South America). Pakistan unfortunitly possesses none of these things at the moment. what would America want the bad economy, thanks we have our own. maybe Pakistan's natural gas which wouldn't even put a dent in our demand. also in today's world markets Pakistan has proven that it is nobodies puppet government.<BR/> also your forgetting the Pakistani people chose to remove Musharraf. are you claiming that the majority of your own people are easily fooled. although Bhutto wasn't an angel by any means. instead of believing she was trying to make Pakistan some American puppet, realize she was only using every available resource to ensure what she thought was the future of pakistan. not much different from Musharraf pronouncing a war on terror to mantain power and to create broader alliances. Also the U.S. government is wagging a war in a neighboring country why wouldn't the U.S speak with Pakistan's new heads of state. politically its always better to test the waters. this is how government works no matter what county.<BR/> even though it can't be substantiated, the ISI seems to operate from the same play book as the CIA. they in all probability where trained by the cia during the 80's. In America we are becoming well aware of what happens when we give so much power to a small group of people. The ISI one of Pakistan's many obstacles. look what our intelligence community has done to the world and America's reputation, I think this post proves just that. now I'm not saying that trust needs to be given to America in regard to your countries self-interests. that would be suicidal because America is only thinking of its best interests. but don't let Pakistan's future become tainted by the same ideals that have tainted America itself. Also is this kind of talk really beneficial to the Pakistani people, instead you should use that energy to help build Pakistan into the Muslim leader that it already has the heart to be.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11270181090847169265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post-78814470036325078742008-09-16T01:12:00.000-07:002008-09-16T01:12:00.000-07:00Hi, just landed up on the discussion thread while ...Hi, just landed up on the discussion thread while doing some other search. <BR/>Well, I'd like to <BR/>a) ask Mr. Haq if I could reproduce the article on my blog with credit to the author?<BR/>b) also share my opinion. It is inevitable that history as we know it is as written by those who were in power. Yes, I'd say that all the Osamas of the world are evil. However, evil as they may be, they undoubtedly rise from strength to strength only because at some point in time, another party acts as a catalyst to further their mutual interests. While Musharraf may not have been 100% a great guy, I still respect him for whatever he had done for his country. I agree with the hypothesis that US sought a mandate to further their interests in West and Central Asia, and found an ally in Musharraf. When their purpose has been sidelined a bit, they seek to change the situation back to their advantage. While Musharraf may have been very much hand in glove with US to bring funds, monetary support and stability to Pakistan and some of his actions have miffed the local populace,running a country is no joke. If the US was so strong an ally of Musharraf, how come he has quietly stepped down while the local govt. in Iraq has been plagued by incessant resistance from vast areas within and still continues to be in power? I have not seen or heard a single news item on Musharraf's current activities since August 18. With power comes greed...and greed increases the hunger for power and control. All I'll say is, my gut feel says that US is slowly axing the branch on which it sits. At the end of the day, all news about death, damage and economic strife only hits the common man, while those in power continue to eat their 3 meals a day, travel in aircraft and air-conditioned cars and express their condolences to those in grief!<BR/>We are still in the Dark Ages of the second kind.Icehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05184953743341510741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post-61899590589144137822008-09-16T00:29:00.000-07:002008-09-16T00:29:00.000-07:00I am not advocating a military only solution.In co...I am not advocating a military only solution.In counter-terror there is a short-term approach and long-term approach.Both are important and one cannot pick one over the other. In all the anti-terror discourse my exasperation was that, becoz of lack of political will on both Pak and US, they took a decision not to take a decision and let status quo remain on Afghan-Pak border until it was too late.(Don't even mention India..it has the lamest counter-terror policy ever..or non-existent).The result is that in the interim period, many-many bad guys "graduated" from those places and perhaps went back to respective countries to be sleepers ..and that dangerous momentum will be very expensive in terms of lives and property in times to come. Metaphorically speaking,the parts that are affected by cancer have to amputated and also undergo long term medication so that it does recur. Military strategies don't necessarily have to so callous like Lal Masjid raid (in which hundreds of girl students were massacred by SSG)or unplanned strikes that killed 500 or so Afghan civilians until now.More than "hearts and minds", the important thing is to put before the ppl in raw terms the gravity of the situation and unmask the Taliban-Al-Qeada strategy. ISI definitely has excellent intelligence on those terror leaders,but they were hitherto using them like ATM cards to draw aid and hard cash. Its hard to believe that they dont know where baitullah is after he attended press conference in public.Thats like insulting ppl's intelligence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post-13459978760978425622008-09-15T17:45:00.000-07:002008-09-15T17:45:00.000-07:00Jaydev,The problem with intelligence tips in Afgha...Jaydev,<BR/>The problem with intelligence tips in Afghanistan and FATA is their notorious inaccuracy that has led to many, well-documented deaths of innocent civilians and strong, angry backlash.<BR/>Even if the tips accuracy is improved, you still have to contend with the fact that "you can not jail or kill every terrorist", in the words of Bill Clinton. The US military tends to attract an inexhaustible stream of recruits for the terror outfits, when it is perceived as killing innocent people.<BR/><BR/>So I still believe in a balanced strategy of carrots and sticks to win the "hearts and minds" of the people in Afghanistan and Pakistan. In the absence of that, even the use of overwhelming force will not solve the problem. It will just make it worse.Riaz Haqhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00522781692886598586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post-72718605298049862982008-09-15T17:12:00.000-07:002008-09-15T17:12:00.000-07:00+vely acknowledge your admonition riazji..guess i ...<I>+vely acknowledge your admonition riazji..guess i overstepped my mandate..(always looking 4 a fruitful discourse..but get emotionally carried away nonetheless)..</I><BR/>back2nitpick:<BR/> The author(dr.ss) talks as though Musharraf was removed by a carefully planned US diplomatic measure. But the fact is the sudden avalanche of activities by PPP+PML to dislodge Musharraf took the State Dept by surprise which was very evident. The <B>help for impeachment process was done by a renegade </B> Zalmay Khalilzad(US ambassador 2 UN) closely advising Zardari out of personal interest keeping other wings out of the loop (perhaps in good faith).Given the amount of comfort Pres.Bush had with Musharraf,its difficult to imagine otherwise.He was an absolute stabilizing factor <B> presenting a simple single window system</B> "shielding US from dealing with individual contradictory components within Pak regime" <B>from State Dept perspective,irrespectively</B>.<BR/><BR/>Taking out Bin laden-Al-zawahiri combo will boost morale of counter-terror warriors but operationally insignificant, given the huge talent pool of Al-queda.Its a franchise type organization with a hydra-type command structure having regional customizations.<BR/>CIA would be interested in decimating entire food chain of dedicated arab/pak cadres.Al-Queda can only be shutdown by some kind of propaganda victory in long run..like Soviet Union invasion of Czechoslovakia?..fall of berlin wall? equivalent(or may be bigger)..which dried up ideological recruitment for KGB.(Given the distrust of general news sources in Islamic world, that would be next to impossible.) Until then and in short term, the process of killing to the last man and women of their cadre (that they have intel on), has to continue. A long bloody war of attrition. Sigh!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post-42116494207902692742008-09-15T10:00:00.000-07:002008-09-15T10:00:00.000-07:00B. Raman (Former RAW intelligence official and, pr...B. Raman (Former RAW intelligence official and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai) writes in recent issue of OUTLOOK as follows:<BR/><BR/>(Informed sources) say that it is correct that Prime Minister Yousef Raza Gilani and President Asif Ali Zardari had been kept in the picture by officials of the Bush administration, including President George Bush himself, about the new rules of engagement approved by Bush in July before the visit of Gilani to Washington DC. Under these new rules of engagement, the US has been allowed to step up aerial attacks on suspected terrorist hide-outs in Pakistani territory by the Predator pilotless planes and undertake ground operations through special forces within a depth of not more than five kms if warranted by precise intelligence without informing the Pakistan Army beforehand. According to them, these rules of engagement also lay down that ground operations would be undertaken in such a manner as not to involve an accidental confrontation with the Pakistani security forces. As against three Predator strikes and no ground strike during the whole of last year when Pervez Musharraf was the President and the Chief of the Army Staff (COAS), there have already been 12 Predator strikes and one ground strike since the Gilani government came to office on March 18, 2008<BR/><BR/>These sources say that Gen.Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, Pakistan's Chief of the Army Staff (COAS), was also briefed on these new rules of engagement during his meeting with Admiral Michael Mullen, Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, on board a US aircraft carrier in the Arabian Sea on August 27, 2008. However, Kayani has strongly denied this. A press release of the Inter-Services Press Office issued on September 10,2008, quoted Kayani as saying as follows while commenting on media reports: "The sovereignty and territorial integrity of the country will be defended at all costs and no external force will be allowed to conduct operations inside Pakistan.Riaz Haqhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00522781692886598586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post-88447346501240591162008-09-15T07:18:00.000-07:002008-09-15T07:18:00.000-07:00Maven,Osama is REAL and he is no ordinary demon, h...Maven,<BR/>Osama is REAL and he is no ordinary demon, he is the devil incarnate. He and his evil ideology have misguided a lot of people, mostly Muslims, and brought great suffering upon humanity. I hope he is captured and/or killed very soon. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, his capture or death will not end the misery of the world. And people who have profited from the existence of bin Laden as a threat will find or invent new demons to continue their enterprise based on fear-mongering. <BR/><BR/>For all you know, we might even see a revived cold war with same or different adversaries to keep the military-industrial complex thriving.Riaz Haqhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00522781692886598586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post-47784460678746122462008-09-14T23:58:00.000-07:002008-09-14T23:58:00.000-07:00This article seems very logical and it is possible...This article seems very logical and it is possible to draw parallels with the continuous influencing of education, media, key bureaucrats, political leaders / outfits. <BR/><BR/>Has it ever struck you?<BR/><BR/>If you accept the hypothesis of this article - Then Osama bin Laden always eludes arrest because he is more valuable alive than dead.<BR/><BR/>If dead the spectre is permanently destroyed and you have nobody else to demonize.....Mavinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11427701624966763777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post-16042058723763653502008-09-14T22:28:00.000-07:002008-09-14T22:28:00.000-07:00I don't necessarily agree with a variety of viewpo...I don't necessarily agree with a variety of viewpoints from different authors I publish from time to time, nor do I always agree with your comments which I also publish.<BR/><BR/>However, I do value people who logically think for themselves and effectively articulate their views. These include my readers and commentators, such as you, Jaydev, who contribute their comments to help the discussion along to enlighten me and others.Riaz Haqhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00522781692886598586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5848640164815342479.post-87687655547830723452008-09-14T21:37:00.000-07:002008-09-14T21:37:00.000-07:00The author is an LTTE sympathizer for god sake..ca...The author is an LTTE sympathizer for god sake..cant get anymore evil than that(forget imperialism). Riazji, you are cherry picking "objective" articles that somehow depicts Pak as a victim. We all know how dirty Pak establishment is in spreading terror,narcotization and epicenter of dangerous proliferation activities. When America is pissed-off, they might release on a piece-meal basis the dirty activities of Pak establishment both military and civilian which hitherto were covered-up under policy of appeasement of Pak by successive admin from Reagan to BushJr. Its very unfortunate that ppl in Islamic countries buy into conspiracy and yellow journalism. Reading between lines is not very difficult thing..if u read a couple of newspapers..we can filter facts from bias. Dont have to rely on dubious sources for truth. These kind of conspiracy theories is what drives disturbed youth towards al-queda ideology and all..<I><B>Bottom line is you dont like what you see, therefore you look for(and therefore only see) what you like..sort for intentional self-delusion.</B> </I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com